Our next guest on the USF CSA Blog is my dear friend and prior supervisor, Dr. Richard Nicholas. Dr. Nicholas is the Vice President of Student Life at Texas Woman’s University in Denton, Texas. Welcome Dr. Nicholas!!
Please respond to the questions below. As was the case with our previous guests, Dave Roberts and Melissa Bryant, this exercise is intended to help our students learn through the experiences of others in the field. There are 32 students enrolled in EDF 6938, however only a third of the students are expected to actively participate in a dialogue with you this coming week. Students in the class with the last name starting with P-Z will be monitoring and engaging with you in this process. The other students in the class will monitor only this week's conversation. Thanks to all, in advance, for your participation!
Discussion starters:
1) Describe your professional path in the field. If there are aspects of your decision-making (in your career choices) that may inform how our students approach the beginning of their own professional employment, please share them. If there are things you'd have done differently, please explain them.
2) Describe some challenges you've faced in your work. Are there experiences you've had as a supervisor that presented particular difficulty (or joy)? Are there challenging interactions with faculty, colleagues, students, or parents that have made lasting contributions to your learning?
3) What keeps you going? What are the best parts of the work, particularly any surprises you've experienced, ways in which the work was better or more fun than you expected?
4) From a Vice President’s perspective, what advice would you share with entering professionals?
Again, a portion of the students will be interacting with you over the course of the coming week. They will react to your observations and ask follow-up questions. Whatever time you can spare to respond to them would be greatly appreciated. A dialogue with you, in effect, is what I am seeking.
Thanks again Richard!! I appreciate you!! Dee Siscoe
Please respond to the questions below. As was the case with our previous guests, Dave Roberts and Melissa Bryant, this exercise is intended to help our students learn through the experiences of others in the field. There are 32 students enrolled in EDF 6938, however only a third of the students are expected to actively participate in a dialogue with you this coming week. Students in the class with the last name starting with P-Z will be monitoring and engaging with you in this process. The other students in the class will monitor only this week's conversation. Thanks to all, in advance, for your participation!
Discussion starters:
1) Describe your professional path in the field. If there are aspects of your decision-making (in your career choices) that may inform how our students approach the beginning of their own professional employment, please share them. If there are things you'd have done differently, please explain them.
2) Describe some challenges you've faced in your work. Are there experiences you've had as a supervisor that presented particular difficulty (or joy)? Are there challenging interactions with faculty, colleagues, students, or parents that have made lasting contributions to your learning?
3) What keeps you going? What are the best parts of the work, particularly any surprises you've experienced, ways in which the work was better or more fun than you expected?
4) From a Vice President’s perspective, what advice would you share with entering professionals?
Again, a portion of the students will be interacting with you over the course of the coming week. They will react to your observations and ask follow-up questions. Whatever time you can spare to respond to them would be greatly appreciated. A dialogue with you, in effect, is what I am seeking.
Thanks again Richard!! I appreciate you!! Dee Siscoe
1) Describe your professional path in the field. If there are aspects of your decision-making (in your career choices) that may inform how our students approach the beginning of their own professional employment, please share them. If there are things you'd have done differently, please explain them.
ReplyDeleteI appreciate the opportunit to participate with this class and I look forward to your questions and comments.
Like so many in this profession, I discovered the opportunity by being active on campus as an undergraduate. I learned that something I really enjoyed could become my career. I began at my alma mater, the University of Texas at Austin in a temporary assignment, Coordinator of Orientation. That temporary appoiontment actually lasted over three years. I had the good fortune to have a wonderful mentor whose name you should know -- Margaret J. "Peggy" Barr. From there, now convinced that I had chosen the right field, I left for a master's degree in Higher Education/College Student Personnel Administration.
My next career opportunity/choice turned out to be much more important than I knew at the time. I chose a positon at a small private college. Two years later I was promoted to be the Dean of Students and I have been a chief student affairs officer ever since -- 31 years. That was my plan, my ambition. I have had the good fortune to serve both large and small universities, both public and private. No, I would not do things differently. This career path has been everything I wanted and more. I have some suggestions for new professionals which I will share below.
(continued)
2) Describe some challenges you've faced in your work. Are there experiences you've had as a supervisor that presented particular difficulty (or joy)? Are there challenging interactions with faculty, colleagues, students, or parents that have made lasting contributions to your learning?
ReplyDeleteThere is no way to sit in a cabinet position or a Vice President's chair without significant challenges. budgets, state regulations, lawyers, regents, legislators, etc. can fill books. For me the joys have always outweighed the down side of challenges. Challenges always present an opportunity to learn, even though it does not seem that way at the time. I have served as a CSAO at four universities. Each time I have moved up, I have been a better administrator by having met such challenges.
One challenge we all face is building a team -- hiring the right staff for the right jobs. Twice I have made errors and hired the wrong person. Talk about a challenge of my own making! Overall, this is one skill I have had. I have hired well and the outcome has serve me well and served the universities well. Six of my former staff have gone on to become CSAOs, a point of pride for me, including one Dr. Dee Siscoe! I had the good sense to select Dr. Siscoe, moving her from an Assistnat Director position to Assistant Vice President. I was rewarded with years of strong, loyal, effective leadership from her in that position. As an aside, the look on her face when she was offered the significant promotion is still a favorite memory.
What keeps you going? What are the best parts of the work, particularly any surprises you've experienced, ways in which the work was better or more fun than you expected?
That's easy. I made the choice to enter student affairs because I loved work with students. That still keeps me going. Watching new students and their families arrive, watching students learn, grow, find and meet their potential is still a joy -- a joy that offsets budget problems, lengthy meetings, paperwork, and all the challenges. Whether you are studying details of student development theory or just watching it happen, it is a joy.
On another level, building a student affairs division that meets the real potential of the profession is also a joy. I know I have had an impact on the entire student body as well as individuals. What has kept me here at Texas Woman's University langer than I actually planned is this opportunity. I work for a Chancellor who lets me run my division and respects what a true student affairs division can do for a university. So you will see where I cam coming from, I currently supervise athletics, fitness and recreation, counseling, intercultural services, international education, housing, food services, student health center, student union, the center for student development, commuter and non-traditional student services,alumni relations, admissions, financial aid, student records processing, registrar, student life development, conference services, orientation, and student conduct. Such a role makes our division, called Student Life, a full partner with Academic Affairs and part of all major university decisions.
From a Vice President’s perspective, what advice would you share with entering professionals?
There are several things I would share -- and maybe we can do more through the discussion.
(continuted)
a) identify your level of ambition soon. Career decisions you are making or will soon make may vary with level of ambition. If your goal is to be a director, e.g. director of housing, you may need to proceed diffently than if your plan is to become a Vice President.
ReplyDeleteb) while in the master's program, take courses in higher education law, budgeting, and organizational structure. You will need them all later. Counseling, student develeopment, etc. provide skilss beginning at the entry level. The others are essential to higher level positions. I can explain why if you are interested.
c) find a mentor as soon as possible. Try not to work for a supervisor who is not willing to be a mentor. Then, be a mentor. My division hosts an internship course, listed in Psychology, as an introduction to the profession. We hire interns from student interested in the field. We have hosted NASPA Fellows and paid for students to attend ACPA and NASPA.
d) even if your background is in larger institutions, conside a first job at a small college. Learning, advancement, and generalist skills come faster there.
e) if your previous or firt position is a specialist position, be careful of "tracking". Some of our specialities can be deadends. Financial Aid, Multicultural Affairs, and others come to mind. Employers are glad to hire you for the same role, but it can be hard to move up or out from there.
f) finally, if your ambition is to mid-management positions or higher, you need to have a approach that includes entrpreneurship, innovation, and incubation. Today's student affairs divisions are not warm fuzzy programers. More on that later if you are interested.
I am looking forward to the discussion. If you are commenting, let me know your level of ambition as a start.
Richard Nicholas
Hello Dr. Nicholas,
DeleteThank you so much for participating in the blog and providing us with your insight. It was a pleasure reading about your professional path as well as your suggestions for us as we enter the world of student affairs as new professionals. It is always refreshing to hear from professionals, who have been in the field for a number a years that working with students is ultimately what still keeps you going. You ask about our ambitions, and to be honest, I have many. I really enjoy the current work that I do, which is advising a group of scholarship students who have overcome adversity while pursuing their academic goals. Many of them are at-risk, first generation students and they truly inspire me every day and keep me motivated to continue doing the work that I love. Ultimately, I would like to be a director of some sort, but I always want to have one on one interaction with students. That is really important to me.
Can you talk a little bit more about specialist positions? You mentioned “dead-ends”. Can you elaborate more on that, and what that means for some of us that are focused of specific functional areas that may not necessarily allow opportunities to advance? Also, what do you mean by “tracking”?
Thank you very much,
Rochelly Ramirez
Rochelly: Gladly! I doubt that you will find either term in professional literature. I use "tracking" to refer to a problem in a job search where an applicnt appears to be tracked into one experience. Someone who has worked in one area of student affairs sometimes is assumed to only know that area. As an example, an experienced financial aid person can always get a financial aid job, but is unlikely to be hired to run n orientation program and vice versa. To counteract this issue, I recommend using graduate assistantships or internships to build credentials in more than one area and being willing to accept lateral moves in entry level positions. If your plan -- your ambition level -- is to stay in one area for an entire career, this is less of an issue.
DeleteWhen searching for a position, look for a structure that allows for multiple responsibilites. As examples, our office of Intercultural Services -- what many would call Multicultural Affairs, which I consider to be limiting -- is responsible for mentorship programs, high school outreach programs, and earns numerous grants in addition to the more standard programs considered to be multicultural. Our Center for Student Development includes leadership programs, volunteer programs, greek life, and orientation in addition to the more standard student activities functions.
The downside for me is that I often lose well trained young professionals who have multiple skill sets to other universities as they advance, but I am willing to pay that price.
Hello Dr. Nicholas,
ReplyDeleteMy ambition is to be a Director of a Student Affairs Department. I have thoroughly enjoyed the Leadership and Civic Engagement aspects of my current graduate assistantships, but I don't want to narrow myself to just those specialities.
I found it interesting and agree with you when you said that student affairs division leaders aren't "warm fuzzy programers" and that you need to approach higher positions with "entrepreneurship, innovation, and incubation." Can you elaborate on this more or provide some examples of what you have done as a CSAO? Would you suggest using the same qualities or taking the same approach as a Director of a Department too?
Thanks!
Megan Walden
Megan: Yes I encourage directors to use the same approach in most cases. These three concepts, for me, are part of being an equal partner with academic affairs and a supporter of the "big picture" of the university as a whole. Entrepreneurship refers to finding ways to fund student life operations and more without needing tuition or state funds. As examples, we have a Student Life Development unit which raises money. Last year they raised $1.5 million for scholarships and sponsorship of student life events. Our Conference Services unit hosts camps and conferences to earn money for housing, food service and to offset overshead for many facilities. This approach helps keep our housing costs down for students.
DeleteInnovation, as it implies, means proactively anticipating student and university needs and providing programs and services accordingly. Student affairs programs -- and staff -- stuck in the mode of "we have always done it that way" are often the first on the chopping block in tough budget times. Those of us contributing to enrollment, retention, and revenue are dramatically more valued.
Incubation refers to a way to make changes or initiate new programs at low cost. During budget planning, especially in times of cuts many of us are experiencing, no one wants to see a proposal for an expensive new service. As an example, we "incubated" a new office of Commuter Services by carving out a few dollars and some staff time from the Student Union which is supported by a separate fee. After proving its success and ability to contribute, this program, now called Commuter and Non-Traditional Services, is well established, funded, and includes a staff of three.
The key to this approach is understanding the "big picture" and clearly being a part of it.
Hi Dr. Nicholas,
ReplyDeleteMy current level of ambition would be to become a director within the academic advising functional area. I have enjoyed this aspect of my current assistantship with a living-learning community, but also enjoy the programming and teaching aspects as well.
We have discussed in class recently the importance of finding the right fit at a new institution as well as understanding the office culture within a potential new department. This can be challenging on the interviewee’s end to find an environment they are comfortable in, as well as the interviewer’s end to find the right person for the job. You had mentioned above the challenge of building a team and hiring the right staff. Reflecting on those experiences, what were some of the signs during the interview process that may have indicated whether that candidate would be successful or not? What is one of the best questions we can ask to determine if the fit is right for us?
Thank you for your insight thus far!
Angela
Angela: From the vantage point of a hiring officer, part of the answer is intuitive. After all this time, I have a good sense of who I am looking for. As far as the interview process, I expect candidates to have done their research on my university and the position. I expect candidates to have questions for us well beyond the obvious "what are you looking for?". We typically ask thought-provocing questions designed to intitate quite a bit of conversation rather than questions which seem to have short or specific answers. We arrange for a candidate to meet as many of our staff, from multiple units, as possible to begin to gauge "fit" for attitude and personality/style. We also include students and ask for their evaluation of candidates. I would be suspicious of any institution not showing students to a candidate in student affairs!
DeleteFrom a candidates perspective, beyond your job experience and skills, you need to know the "big" picture: what is the mission, what is the role of student affairs within the university, and what is the role of the position within student affairs. It is fair game to ask what it is like to work in the unit/division, for the CSAO, and for the university. If staff will not answer, run! Always remember that you have a skill set to sell. I get many cover letters telling me how my job will be great for the candidate -- advance my career, meet my goals, move to Texas, etc. What I prefer to hear is what the candidate has to offer. I like to see words like "I can offer you..."
Hi Dr. Nicholas,
ReplyDeleteThank you for sharing your story with us and participating in our blog. It was great to hear that you had a plan and able to carry it as a chief student affairs officer for 31 years. I appreciate your honesty about choosing my level of ambition soon, since my career decisions will influence that goal. I have been pretty short term focused when it come to my future career, but my ambition is to be a director. I have enjoyed my graduate assistantship work with academic initiatives within housing, and I would like to use my experiences to work in academic advising.
The second piece of advice you shared was making sure to take courses on law, budget, and organizational structure, since they are essential for later in our careers. Luckily, we have had the opportunity to learn about all these topics in our program but I would still like to hear about your experiences with these areas as a chief student affairs officer.
Thanks again,
Lindsay Skillman
Lindsay: That's easy! As soon as you move beyond the entry level, you begin to move from entry level skills toward budgets, compliance issues, regulations, policy development, etc. As CSAO, I always want to have a strong partnerships with the Chief Fiscal officer and their unit. I do not want them making decisions for me. That requires that I understand their world -- how budgets work and the restrictions. I want all directors to manage their own budgets, never overspend, and be able to use budgets to make plans successful, including incubation. If it is your ambition to rise beyond entry level, these skills are essential. If you leave compliance decisions, liability issues, etc. to others, you may miss out.
DeleteHello Dr. Nicholas. What I enjoyed seeing in your story is how truly different it has been from some of the other stories we've heard on this blog. Thirty one years is a long time, and you no doubt how have a breadth of experience and knowledge that would benefit anyone looking to enter student affairs. My name is Kehsi Iman Wilson and I am a Counselor/Advisor with Trio Student Support Services. In this position I work with low-income and first-generation college students. As far as long-term career goals, I have a mixture of passions. I am the Founder of a national non-profit organization that puts minorities who are pursuing post-secondary educational opportunities in touch with mentors in their field(s) of interest. Working with non-traditional and underserved populations is my primary passion and long-term I'd like to be able to focus full-time on this while working as a professor/researcher in ESL/Linguistics/Educational Psychology (I haven't decided yet). I'm more interested in the faculty/academic side, as it would allow me the flexibility to do my non-profit work as a research aside while still having one-on-one contact with students. I do appreciate my student affairs background and look forward to my next few jobs in the field as I believe it truly rounds out my knowledge of what it means to be an effective educator. Futhermore, the skills gleaned in student affairs are skills that I think everyone working with students should have.
ReplyDeleteYou talked briefly about the importance of hiring the right people. As we've been on the job hunt we've been talking a lot about finding the right "fit." You've only had two poor hiring decisions in your 31 years so what this says to me is your pretty keen on fit. What advice would you offer us or questions do you suggest we ask when it comes to determining best fit between us and an institution? Successful fit is one of the reasons why you've stayed at TWU for so long--because your supervisor has allowed you the freedom to operate the way you think is best. For someone like me, who's always in pursuit of different opportunities and passions, fit is very important.
Thank you for your time and insight.
Sincerely,
Kehsi Iman
Kehsi: Now that is quite a set of ambitions! I answered most of the "fit" question above. Let me add that there are some questions to ask yourself. Start with "do I understand and agree with the mission?" and end with "what kind of students do I want to work with -- fit with?" If you are most comfortable with students with massive SAT scores and BMWs, you may have less of a fit with an open-door campus or one with a predominance of first generation or non-traditional students.
DeleteGiven your interests, I would advise adding research and data skills to your plans. Data-driven decisions are critical to our operations and they make relations (and respect!) with faculty much better. These skills also make the transition between faculty and student affairs positions much easier. Good luck!
Pardon the "Anne" signature. Using the home computer,Google thinks I am my wife, Anne!
ReplyDeleteRichard Nicholas
Dr. Nicholas,
ReplyDeleteThanks for your profound insight and guidance on these student affairs issues. I appreciate your candor in telling us what you look for when seeking out new professionals; this is something that we can all learn from and relate to as we seek careers.
Currently, I work in financial aid, and while I was not initially planning on staying in this department I've grown to enjoy it. Financial aid can be extremely stressful for students and parents, and I like having the opportunity of being able to help with this important process. I am glad that you asked us to state our level of ambition, because this is something that I contemplate extensively. Ideally, I would like to see myself as a Director of Financial Aid someday. I think this would provide me a proper balance of ambition for my career and outside endeavors. Family is very important to me, and I think I would be able to have a happy family life and still be able to be in a career that is rewarding both spiritually (helping others meet the demands of paying for college) and monetarily (financial aid directors are well-compensated).
In regards to your experience I have a few questions:
1. Could you explain how you balance the demands of your career with your family and your life outside work?
2. What is something that you wished you knew before you moved up into higher positions of authority?
3. Lastly, do you think it would be even more imperative for us to go back for doctorates in a few years, because of the increase enrollment of students seeking higher degrees?
Many thanks for taking the time to answer our questions,
Chance (James)
Chance: Director of Financial Aid is a great point of ambition if you are enjoying the work. You are correct that they are well compensated. They are also in high demand. You should expect to move in order to move up since financial aid staff tend to stay put longer than many student affairs staff.
DeleteMy ability to balance work, family, and life has improved over my career. In part, I have significant outside interests -- hobbies. The same could be true of church work, community, etc. Secondly, I have a wife who is very supportive of my profession and understands the need to move to move up and the less than regular schedule.
There is plenty I know now that would have been useful to have known earlier in my career but the reality is that just comes with experience. That is why I mentioned courses -- and experiences with things like budgets. For some areas I would add research skills, like survey design.
As I entered by first position as a Dean of Students, I felt like a doctorate would not be necessary. Of course I was wrong. A doctorate is necessary for most all higher level positions and some directors, especially at larger and top tier universities. While not necessary for other positions, the increased availability of candidates with higher degrees may change the market of the future. Honestly, financial aid is less likely to need the doctorate unless you have an ambition to move either into Enrollment Management or above the director level.
Hello Dr. Nicholas,
ReplyDeleteMy career ambition within the student affairs profession is vary broad at this point for me. My experience is in the operations of a student union, but I have enjoyed most student affairs experiences I have had so far. My options are very open.
Many of us in our cohort are region specific in our job search. Do you have any advise for individuals who are looking in a very specific region for a position?
Scott: If you are place bound or "region specific" you will need to keep your options wide, meaning stay willing to apply for a wide variety of student affairs areas. That also means gathering as wide a variety of experiences through internships, practicums, etc. as possible. The other option, and the one I chose, is to leave the area (I wanted to be in Texas) for advancement and then have the option to return. I worked in Tennessee and Indiana, with one post in Texas between, before returning to stay. Good luck.
DeleteHello Dr. Nicholas,
ReplyDeleteI got involved with student affairs for many of the same reasons you did and it all started with the love for students and watching them succeed and accomplish their goals. For me it really is the most rewarding experience and it is enjoyable to see how they reflect on their pasts and learn from themselves.
I have a question that deals with how you manage the change from starting your career and being heavily engaged with students to progressing and moving forward with your career that usually leads to less interaction with students. Is there anything specifically you do to continue interaction with students or practices you do?
Dr. Nicholas,
ReplyDeleteThank you very much for sharing with us. I only wish I too had the opportunity to see Dr. Siscoe's face when you offered her that promotion! I love seeing people's reactions to good news! I particularly liked your advice. One of the area's that I hope you can touch a little more on is "tracking." This is something that I am really worried about as I start looking for jobs. So many people have many different opinions on the matter. I know where I want to be eventually (VP level) so what areas should I avoid? Not to say that I am not up for a challenge, but I'm one of those people who has a tough time limiting myself and couldn't imagine getting stuck in Housing or stuck in Greek Life. Thoughts?
Hello! Thank you so much for taking the time to participate in the blog. I really enjoyed your advice of the steps to take while in grad school… I wish I would have had some of that information when I first started!!
ReplyDeleteIt was great to see that you got your professional start in
Orientation, because I currently am working in Orientation and that is where a lot of my undergraduate and graduate experience lies, so I really identify with your beginning path. I would like to continue in that functional area, and I was curious what your experience was as a coordinator in Orientation. What were the challenges you faced that you were not expecting? In your opinion, is staying with Orientation a dead-end role, or can it be a bridge to other positions in the future? I know you responded to Rochelly’s comment about “tracking” which I found very helpful, but I am more curious if your position in Orientation was a good step in the right direction.
Additionally, I would like to have an administrative position in the future, but while I want to advance, I really fear losing the interactions with students… which is why I enjoy this field so much. How did you balance your student interactions when you got into an upper administrative position (which I think CJ touched on a little in his question above)? While I want to advance, I do not have a clear functional area I would like to stay in for the future, I feel as if there are so many aspects of student affairs I have yet to experience... I am still looking for my long term fit. Basically, I do not have a clear direction at this time, and sometimes I feel that is a negative when I am first starting out… what are your thoughts about focus and direction?
I hope my questions were not so random and confusing!! Thank you!
Hello Dr. Nicholas,
ReplyDeleteThank you for sharing your story and perspective. I am interested in learning more about your transitions from public to private and vice versa. Were processes/protocols extremely different? How did you learn to navigate the institutional cultures and change that you experienced in your different roles?
Also, my level of ambition is to one day be a Dean of Students. And although I am aware that this position is multifaceted. Being the liaison between the the administration and the Student Affairs staff and students is appealing to me. I would like to be in a position where I can enhance the current policies at the institution and be an advocate for the Director staff that I supervise. Your thoughts are appreciated!
Thank you so much for taking the time to share your experiences with us!
ReplyDeleteI’ve considered job searching at a small private school because my assistantship experience has been so specific (I work with student government, which has a pretty unique structure in Florida). How was the transition from a big school to a small one and public to private?
I was also interested in what you had to say about tracking into a specific functional area. I’m hoping to work for a smaller school to have a more generalized experience, but I’m having trouble framing the very functional area specific experience I’ve had in grad school during interviews and in cover letters to showcase some of the more transferable skills I have.
What did you think were the most important take aways from your higher education law class? Anything specific we should be sure we know as we enter the field? And could you elaborate on what you mean by “today’s student affairs divisions are not warm fuzzy programmers”? I have heard other professionals make similar comments but haven’t ever gotten a whole lot of clarification on what they mean by that. T
Thank you again for taking the time to participate in the blog and share your story with us!